Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Leadership isn't about titles. It's about vision, resilience and growth. I'm Erica Butler and on the Go Hire show, we talk about the tools and strategies that help you lead with impact, grow your business and build teams that thrive. From real estate to cultural agility, from managing diverse teams to creating work life harmony, gohighre helps you rise above challenges and step into your next level. Catch GoHighRe every week on Now Media Television. We're streaming on Roku, Apple TV, SiriusXM, iHeartRadio and all other major platforms. Let's go higher together.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Welcome to Go Higher, the show where we uncover strategies to help leaders rise above challenges and step into greater impact. I'm your host, Erica Butler. Today we're diving into one of the most pressing realities of our time. How leaders can succeed across cultures in a global workplace.
My guest today knows this world inside and out. Someone I look up to for a long time. Respect. His work is incredible. Impacting the world on a global scale. Marco Blankenberg is the International Director and Master Practitioner at knowledgeworks. Right now he is based in Dubai. With more than 25 years of consulting, training and coaching experience, he's certifying coaches all over the world. Marco has worked in over 70 countries, he's lived in six countries and he speaks five languages. He is also the co creator of Intercultural Intelligence Framework. It equips leaders worldwide with strategies for cultural agility and relational success.
So, Marco, I'm so happy you're here today. Welcome to the show.
[00:01:40] Speaker C: Well, thank you for having me.
Quite an introduction.
Thank you for that.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: I could add a lot more too.
I am so blown away by your work and how it has impacted my life, our team's life. We use it for our clients. It's just really meaningful what you're doing. So let's dive in. Marco. Many leaders want to succeed in global markets and diverse workplaces. But it often feels overwhelming to navigate different culture, values and communication styles just as the beginning. So Marco, why do so many leaders underestimate this as an important thing to focus on? Intercultural intelligence when we're managing global teams?
[00:02:22] Speaker C: Well, there's a number of things that immediately come to mind. First of all, although intercultural research has been around since the 60s 70s in leadership development in universities where they teach MBAs, there is still no solid framework to help leaders navigate into cultural complexity.
So when you ask a leader, hey, you know, you have problems on your team, what do you think would be the best way forward? They typically go to things they know, like team Building or psychometric assessments or coaching has become really popular and it's growing, but it talking about intercultural dynamics, it's not in their vocabulary yet, so it's actually quite a new field.
The only thing they might know about, I have a German on my team and a Brazilian on my team, and they don't seem to gel very well. What do I do about it? And that's the superficial staple that we find with leaders around the world. So they don't have a reference, but also they typically do if they focus on it. They say, help me so that my Brazilian and my German colleague actually can get along.
And the world has become much more complicated than that. So it's not just, you know, the average Brazilian and the average German on your team. No, it's a unique German individual and a unique Brazilian individual that you have on your team.
How do you figure out what their cultural wiring is and how do you now help them get along? But much more importantly, how do you now build a team culture where they can thrive and they want to be there?
So that's the other thing, and I already alluded to it, that very often people think that psychology has all the answers to the relational challenges that they might face on the team.
And that's only partially true because. Because culture is the other side that drives our day to day thinking, speaking and acting.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Well, I can speak from personal experience.
I think you know this story. But when years ago, a client referred me to you, I was like, oh yeah, I've been HR a long time. I train people in diversity, inclusion, all these initiatives. Oh, I already know all that. I really meant it. I'm like, sure, I'll reach out. And then I met with you and did some of your assessments and I was blown away how deep it is these values drive these different world. Values in these three ones you teach on, they drive our decisions, are how we perceive everything. And I just, I can't believe that was my initial perspective. Then of course, we've been working together really ever since. And I just think this happens a lot. Marco, I think you, you, you, you put this into this whole box that is, it's part of it, but it's just we can go so much deeper. And that's what you're doing. How can cultural agility turn potential conflict into collaboration across different worldviews and values?
[00:05:27] Speaker C: That's a great question.
[00:05:30] Speaker C: Intercultural agility is really about different cultures coming together.
And when you work on an intercultural team, that's not just here and there. On a visit to another country. It's actually daily, and there is multiple things to look at. One of the things we love doing is go to the foundational drivers of culture.
And there are three main drivers that we bring culturally into a team. So either I'm culturally driven by doing the right thing, avoid doing the wrong thing, or I'm driven by honor and avoiding shame, Or I'm driven through hierarchy, position, influence, power, and avoiding situations where that gets diminished and just recognizing that we bring different drivers, cultural drivers, into the team.
So if I want to do the right thing, but my colleague is focused on doing that which is honorable, we have a disconnect and not understanding that. Why in the world did you say that? Or why didn't you give me the full answer when I asked you in the meeting?
When you understand those. Those worldview drivers, that is a great beginning.
[00:06:47] Speaker C: Another thing that we love doing, and this is super important, is that we call it perception management.
So am I culturally perceiving who I am in that situation? Who you are, what's happening in the relationship, and what's happening in the context.
And I always compare it with somebody who, let's say, grew up in the desert, and all of a sudden they're really good at surviving in the desert. They know how to build camp, they know where to find food, where to find water, what to look out for, what's dangerous.
Now you take that person to have great skills in the desert, but now you take them into, let's say, the Amazon jungle.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: And only very few of those desert skills will translate into real survival skills in the Amazon jungle.
And the same is true culturally.
So that's why it's so important to develop that intercultural agility, to slow down, become a better observer of yourself, of the other, and of the context, so that you don't go into default mode. And that's a great topic in and of itself. We all have default mode networks in our brain, and they need to be deconstructed to become interculturally agile.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: I love one of the things I've learned from you is this concept that you can do of third culture space and allowing that there's space for all values to coexist once you're aware they exist and aware of your self and others. I think it's so beautiful that it's really possible. And I know there's many examples you can share, but let's talk about some of the common mistakes that that happen so we can avoid these. What are the common mistakes leaders make when they assume one size Fits all leadership is going to work everywhere.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:39] Speaker C: The, the one thing that, that is already around. Most people are familiar with situational leadership.
So intercultural leadership is almost like situational leadership on steroids. You need to become super, super situational because you have all these differences. And the reality is there is really only one large global project that looks at intercultural leadership. It's called the Globe Leadership Project. And they have at the moment, seven leadership behaviors that are seen as positive.
But those seven behaviors are lived out in very different ways across the world. So when it says, for instance, one of them has to do with decisiveness and confidence, that's an aspired leadership trait that most countries around the world see as positive. But how do you show up decisive and confident in India versus South Korea versus Portugal?
It's different. And you can already see by your facial expression you can connect with that.
What does it mean to be charismatic and dynamic across cultures? It's seen as different. So one size fits all is really dangerous. If you want to mess up your international assignment, go for it. One size fits all. You'll probably be part of the 40% of leaders that fail around the world within the first year. But you'll get there much faster than most.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: It's so easy. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Marco, Go ahead. Yes.
[00:10:17] Speaker C: Yeah. I think the other thing that's really, really important is that leaders by and large I find, don't have, well, fine tuned skills to create culture.
[00:10:31] Speaker C: Sometimes they even say, well, it's my team, so they dance my dance.
[00:10:37] Speaker C: Which especially on an intercultural team. And on top of that, with the younger generation entering the workforce, they don't appreciate that.
So my team, my rules does not work. You have to learn what it takes to become a culture creator.
And that, that's also where I see a lot of leaders. They either lack the skills or they're not aware of it. And they might be very eager to develop it, but they don't know how.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: And they don't have support in their overall organization of, of, of that. And it's not modeled for them, you know. So how do they learn as new leaders?
No, that's. Those are good examples. So I love to hear real life story that you've lived. Can you share? I know you have zillions, but can you share a time when understanding cultural differences completely changed an outcome of a team or project? You.
[00:11:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm currently still working with a team that's now in our second year.
They are responsible for many countries across a large geographic region. They themselves come from all over the world.
And they realized very quickly that, first of all, the way they ran their own team, their own. This was a leadership team.
They were culturally biased. So there was a. I won't mention regions of the world, but they were all, by and large, except for two people on the team, they were not from that region.
But the flavor, the cultural vibe of the team was not even representative of the region that they were serving.
And that backfired on them in many ways.
Related to those three things I mentioned earlier on. Doing the right thing, the honorable thing, and doing that which empowers or that maintains or. Or grows the hierarchical structure of the organization.
And so they realized, oh, our culture is not helpful in serving tens of thousands of people in this large part of the world.
And we started to unpack that. And we started with tools like the three colors of worldview with perception management, how to slow things down, how to deconstruct those cultural biases in your brain. And once we started going with that, then they started to say, well, okay, how do we now craft our own culture? And we started to do that. And once we call it a team charter, so this is a leadership team charter. From there, they said, how do we cascade that to the people reporting to us? And how do we now take it to the country managers? But then they also discovered, as they were having those deeper conversations, they say, oh, it's so hard to manage conflict. For instance, how do you manage conflict across cultures? And again, we dove into that topic, and then we talked about things like accountability. How do you do that across cultures? And then they discovered very quickly that you need to peel back those layers, and little by little, you actually become more and more interculturally agile in the process.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: What results with that, Marco?
What results did they. What business results or what were the outcomes second year in what. What outcomes were they seeing that they kept wanting to do more and more and more with you because they saw the progress. What was that?
[00:14:03] Speaker C: The first thing was people actually started saying, as opposed to moving on, oh, great.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Well, that's a huge win, because it was.
[00:14:11] Speaker C: It was. It's a very challenging region.
So it's not an easy job. But the other thing is that when we started this process, they had struggled for a long time with creating alignment between these regions from a cost efficiency point of view, from a flow point of view, HR processes, accountability processes, supply chain. And they had all these cultural hurdles that were continuously thrown into the process. And once they, as a team, developed their intercultural agility, that started to flow Conversations got unlocked, relationships got better, people started to listen to each other, willing to try new things.
And that process is still ongoing, but it really got them excited about that this is possible and that intercultural agility does make a huge difference.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. That's a great example, Marco. So we have time for one more quick question. And we're very big on just tangible steps for our audience. So what's one simple step leaders can take today to start building culturally agile teams or putting it into their leadership style as a priority?
[00:15:25] Speaker C: Well, it starts with mindset.
So one of our perception management tools talks about having the mindset of a cultural learner.
And it's almost. People might be familiar, for instance, with growth mindset versus fixed mindset.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:41] Speaker C: Carol Black developed this.
[00:15:45] Speaker C: Growth mindset is about learning.
Having the mindset of a cultural learner takes that into the cultural space and you can look it up. We have a mini tool on our website. You know, am I. How much of a cultural learner am I? But just that mindset shift and that it's not stupid or it's not weird, it's just different.
And developing that mindset is a beginning. And from there, just tooling yourself up especially. I was just with a leader two hours ago, and one of the things he said, oh, I realize now I need to slow down.
I need to listen more, I need to observe more. I'm not seeing everything. I need to just slow down. So our perception management tools, we have quite a few that help you slow down and rewire your brain to see more, to. To connect more, to ask better questions. And that really helps you to develop those first steps of intercultural agility growth.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Wonderful. Well, where can people find these tools, Marco? Where can they learn more and actually engage with these tools?
[00:16:55] Speaker C: Well, knowledgeworks with kx@the end.com is a great place to start. We love to be a generous organization. So there's more than 300 articles on our website.
You, you can also pick up on our podcast, Unlocking Cultural Agility.
You've been on there, so we've had a great conversation about HR on that. That's a great place to learn.
So. Or get directly in contact with one of our people around the world and dive in in an executive coaching journey or dive in with your team to develop your team to the next level.
But lots and lots of free stuff out there that we have shared with the world.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Yes. And no matter where you sit, you can engage with them. I know you have people in the U.S. in Dubai, employees in both places, but also you have practitioners in over 70 countries, so amazing. Well, thank you. We'll be right back. Up next, we're going to shift from culture to team dynamics, exploring how self awareness and adaptability unlock high performing teams. Another area Marco is expert for in you won't want to miss it.
[00:18:06] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more stories.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Lessons and practical tools to help you.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: Rise in leadership, business and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Welcome back to Go Higher. Want more of what you're watching? Stay connected to Go Higher and every NOW Media TV favorite live or on demand, anytime you like. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock nonstop bilingual programming in English and Spanish on the move. You can also catch the podcast version right from our website at www.nowmedia.tv. from business and news to lifestyle, culture and beyond, Now Media TV is streaming around the clock. Ready whenever you are.
So I'm here with Marco Blakenberg, an international leadership and international culture expert.
He does work with high performing teams. He is consulting but also certifying, training, coaching.
He does it all. So we're very fortunate to be speaking with him today. In our first segment, we explored how cultural agility can transform leadership in global environments. Now we're diving into something every leader wrestles with. Building high performing teams, one of the most important parts of our job.
So with that, leaders want to build strong high performing teams. But it often feels impossible when people have different personalities, values, work styles and can be resistant to change.
So Marco, let's dive in. You are a certified, your organization is certified to certify others in disc and you also got to certify me. And you have many, many others you certified. So how does a tool like DISC help leaders better understand themselves and their teams?
[00:20:03] Speaker C: Well, DISK has been around for a very long time. I've been a master practitioner certifier for 20 years plus now.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:20:11] Speaker C: And although it's one of the earliest tools that was developed, it's now in its third generation and it's simple but not simplistic. It's actually very deep and it peels back a lot of layers. And the main thing really is answering the question, who am I as a psychological human being? Why do I think the way I think? Why do I speak the way I speak? Why do I act the way I act? From a psychological point of view, and many people have never even stopped long enough to think about that.
And that's where an assessment like the everything disc helps you fast track that. It's.
[00:20:55] Speaker C: It'S a voice in the room that you can't argue with very easily. And we use that interculturally as well. It's like the third voice in the room to have that report. And you're reading it and you're processing it based on the questions that you answered online.
So getting that question answered, who am I as a psychological human being is a great starting point and it really connects.
It answers that why question of my thinking, my speaking, my acting. And then once I do that, I can then use that same approach with people around me and it normalizes.
[00:21:31] Speaker C: That behavior is different and it's okay, you are different from me. I don't need to make you like you. I don't need to try and copy you. I can just celebrate who I am. And that's one of the things I love to emphasize when we use the everything disc profile.
[00:21:50] Speaker B: I love that you said that. Because the times I've done disc coaching, training, one of the things that always comes up is oh, I wish I was that one or that one or is a better leader from one of the four options. And no, and I think the program is so good about that that they all have equal value, they all need it. My favorite part is when you show a team their map and how the balance of that team or where they might need to hire, it's just so mind blowing. I did disc about 10 years ago, Marco, and it just, I saw why people reacted to me a certain way that were opposite to me. It just is mind blowing. So those who haven't done assessments like this, you're right. I think leaders, it's a really first step in the right direction of building a high performing team.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Going off of that. What role does self awareness play in transforming a good team into truly a high performing great one?
[00:22:44] Speaker C: Well, we already said, you know, if, if I don't understand the why of my own thinking, speaking and acting, I will not be able to understand yours.
So the chance that we, that I misfire or that we misfire with each other is quite high. On top of that, one of the things we talk about when we use the everything disc is that awareness comes first, then comes appreciation and respect and then comes celebration and then integration.
And that's like a sequence of words. But they're actually quite important because I need to first become aware. I need to first respect that you are different. You bring different skills to the team, different ways of thinking that I might actually need.
I need that counterweight or that other perspective. But also you might have skills that I don't have. And it's okay for me to say that and it's okay to even say, hey, Erica, can you help me with this? Or this particular task would not be good on my plate. Can we talk about potentially you taking that on?
So it creates, it normalizes that we are all good in certain things. It comes natural and there are other things that we struggle with and it's okay to talk about it. And it creates much more of a free flow, masks off type of environment the team. And that's a beautiful base to start saying now, how do we become a high performing team now that the masks have come off, we know who's on this team, what they're capable of.
Now let's start crafting, let's start building.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: How you described it is so beautiful because people can really come as themselves on masks and the celebration part of that and then they really can optimize in their strengths and it's really amazing and engaging. So I love how you explain that. So taking it one step further, if your team is high performing, there's always going to be change coming. Navigating change, resistant to change. So how can leaders navigate resistance to change when people do hold on to different values and worldviews?
[00:25:05] Speaker C: Yeah, the first thing I would say is that change management.
[00:25:11] Speaker C: Has a history of not taking culture into account.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: True. That's so true.
[00:25:17] Speaker C: It barely has taken psychology into account. That's why still today, over 70% of change initiatives globally fail.
[00:25:27] Speaker C: And the first thing I would say is when you know a tool like the disc profile really well, you will know, for instance, what the fears are of each profile. You will know what their limitations are and you will know what behavioral tendencies people will show up with.
That is hugely helpful to understand how they might respond to change.
So for instance, if I am c oriented on the disc profile, one of my fears is I don't want to be wrong.
What does that mean? I will spend a lot of time ensuring that when I present to you, I will not be caught off guard and I will not be wrong.
[00:26:18] Speaker C: If I am in high I on the disc profile, one of my fears is to not be acknowledged, to not be listened to.
So I want to be in the game, I want to be present, I want to be part of the conversation. So if you rob somebody of that, they will be, they will automatically show more resistance they will turn a cold shoulder. So just understanding that this profile really helps you almost predict how people might respond. But also then you change your approach with a high C. I have to have my research done with an I. I have to spend more relational time with an S. I need to break the chains down into small, little bite sizes so that they can track along. And little by little by little, the change will come. So it's really powerful if once you start to understand that part of change management.
And we don't talk in this segment about the cultural side, but that is also a huge part of navigating change on team.
[00:27:22] Speaker B: But you really meet each person where they're at and that's a great leader and the support that they feel from that helps them get to the other side. So that's great.
So very tangibly, if a leader wants to start creating high performing culture team tomorrow, what's the very first action you recommend they take?
[00:27:43] Speaker C: I would say this might sound cliche, but you first need to know where you're at today.
So it's like, I want to change. Let's take a medical example.
I want to shed five kilos.
I first need to know that that's a good thing at my age, with my physique. Is it? Would it help benefit me to do that? So I first take stock. Okay. If it, if it would benefit me, then let me find out what I need to do.
And it's the same with teams. Where are you today?
What's working, what's not working? What can you celebrate? What do you think needs to improve? And one of the ways to do that well is to take stock of who's on the team.
So it's not just where are we culturally as a team, how are we functioning, but it's also who's on the team. So use a tool like the everything disc to get clarity on that and then say.
[00:28:39] Speaker C: This is who we have on the team. This is sort of the quote, unquote, raw material to work with.
Now. How do we move into the future so that we can craft culture? And I always break it down into three layers.
There is what I personally need to do.
And I can plot my own personal development plan. And two thirds of the disk reporting is focused on personal development. There's great ideas in there to help you with that. The second layer is I love to create small groups, twos or threes together. Threes is actually magic. And it's also interculturally the magic number to bring three people together. They band together and they agree to grow together.
So that's a small unit within the larger team and that's the last layer so that the team collectively makes commitments. Let's tweak this, let's change this, let's agree on that.
So you have these three layers, you have me making commitments.
That's how I contribute. Then there's a small group of three. They band together and they make commitments to each other. And then the team as a whole. And playing with those three layers, I find the team makes faster progress when you do that.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: Thank you for laying that out so simply for us.
Now, those that look at the knowledgeworks website and see all. Marcos, doing everything you're doing really elevates teams every single part. We can argue how all the work, cultural work, high performing teams, the disc it elevates.
Can you tell us just a little bit about your book you launched? I think I forget, a few months ago, something like that. All the questions. Do you want to share a little bit about your book before you can tell people how to sign up for your newsletter? Yeah, absolutely.
I have it.
[00:30:28] Speaker C: So, yeah, so we have facilitators and coaches in 55 countries around the world. And, and what they often hear is people don't know what questions to ask each other if they are culturally from different backgrounds.
Oh, where are you from? Oh, what is it like there growing up, you know? And then they finished. So.
[00:30:54] Speaker C: We said to our network, how many questions could we come up with collectively so that we can give people a tool?
So two years down the line, we end up with 31 topics and over a thousand questions. We turned it into a book and into a game. And I've personally used this with executive teams, with students in the family context. At our church, we've used it in many, many different settings where it's just fascinating. People don't want to stop asking each other questions. You pick a topic like food. Oh, there's a light, light subject. So what's, what was important? Which recipes were, were celebrated in your family home? And what did that mean? And why were those recipes important? And all of a sudden people open up a conversation that they normally don't know how to have.
But also it really creates deep relational bonds as you start to talk about life in that way. So yeah, we, we've loved developing it, but also we've seen this used now in five continents.
And it's just beautiful how good. Intercultural questions create beautiful bridges of relationship. It strengthens teams, strengthens families, strengthens relationships. It's used in refugee and immigrant work so yeah, it's really exciting.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: I have the book, but I'll have to get the game and it sounds a really awesome way to start a retreat or a training even. So we have to wrap up now, unfortunately. Could talk to you so much longer about all of this, but it's been really valuable. Marco, I just appreciate you so much and you know, we'll continue to follow your work, collaborate, and I just hope this is the audience out there follows through and, you know, looks at the book, the game. You're on LinkedIn. Is there any other place people can find you that you didn't already share your newsletter?
[00:32:53] Speaker C: We have multiple newsletters, like if you connect with me on my LinkedIn profile, then there is two newsletters that we're doing right now on high performing intercultural teams. That's one. And there's another one where we use our intercultural tools to understand the world around us as some daring articles in there. But yeah, people have to go and have a look.
So I think that's probably the best way to step into our world.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: Wonderful. Well, thanks again for joining me on Go Higher. Your insights into cultural intelligence and team performance gives a powerful roadmap for navigating leadership in today's very complex world. So I just appreciate you and the conversation.
Thank you, Marco, for your time and keep keep going.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more stories, lessons and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business and light. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
[00:34:04] Speaker B: Welcome to Go Higher. I'm your host, Erica Butler, and for this segment we're diving into performance management.
We have a big training on this that we do for leaders and I'm really happy to have this time to share with you some tips, some tools to make this easier.
Why is performance management such a challenge? Why do people get sick over having to give a warning? Termination? These difficult conversations. We must have this conflict. Why do people lose sleep over and overnight? I've had so many leaders tell me that they truly felt sick to their stomach or couldn't sleep because they were so concerned about a really tough conversation they had to have the next day. That's why we're talking about this. I think it's one of the hardest things to do as leaders, but it's one of the most important things to do as leaders. It's loving, kind, truthful to Tell someone what is really happening in their career and if it's not a fit, we have to be honest with them. Of course. Let's back up a bit before we ever get into performance management. Best practice and what works is good training, good support, good one on one meetings, honest feedback. You never want someone to show up at a performance review that's not positive and be shocked. You never want someone to come to a performance improvement plan meeting where they have to go on maybe 30, 60, 90 day pip we call it and be shocked. You want to make sure you are having regular communication with your team throughout the weeks, months, no shocks. That's part of the reason I think this is so hard for leaders because they, they put it off, put it off because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings. All of these reasons. Right. So I want it to at least build up with that. Now let's talk some questions I get about this topic and how to do it well.
So some questions I get. There's companies that now have moved away from performance reviews, but those doing them, it feels like just a formality, just a check for the box kind of thing. So I get asked, how do we make this time more meaningful? An hour with an employee, how do we make it more meaningful? First off, like I said, don't just make it one time a year where we're talking about performance making, an ongoing thing, but when you have this conversation, make it about the values, tie it back to values of an organization, the mission, the purpose and give specific examples what's going well. Use it as a time to say celebrate the performance.
Talk about where do you want to go with your career. Use it as a time to develop and set, set a path, set vision of where this person can go and grow with the organization. Also a time to give opportunities, hey, you're doing really well in these areas and celebrate that maybe one or two that they can focus on honest feedback to keep growing. So those are some meaningful ways to make performance reviews better.
Another question we get is what's the smartest way to handle a high performer whose attitude is hurting the team? Interesting question because it's hard to call that person a high performer if they're actually hurting the team. But it does happen.
I've seen these situations a lot, I'm sure many of us have, where you have this rock star, maybe sales individual and they bring in lots of sales, but they are difficult to work with. They might be rude, belittle others, be negative and it pulls others down. What do you do well first, have the conversation and give the honest feedback. Make sure they know that behavior is not okay and this is where it's hurting. Even though they're bringing the sales in and eventually if they do not change and they're still hurting people, unfortunately it comes to a point you have to part ways. I know it is one of the hardest things to do, who's going to backfill those sales? But there's other talent out there for sure that, that are going to treat people better. You should never sacrifice culture because of a person who is performing their actual job well, but treating people poorly. So that's my stance on that and I will stick to that time and time again.
So another question we get is how do you balance giving tough feedback without demand, damaging motivation, or worse, losing a great employee?
I do see leaders at times want to back away from tough feedback they need to give because they are worried this person is just going to.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: Be done and lose motivation. Maybe there's someone that doesn't have. I just had a talk with a client yesterday about this situation. Actually. The individual is a leader, but struggling with confidence, not making the decisions, not doing what they need to in the role. And they were really wondering, we're, we're worried to put them on a performance improvement plan because they could really end up just being so discouraged and really losing all their confidence. Instead, they wanted to start with some coaching, some training, which I supported them in that. I think it's great. However, eventually we need to make sure that tough feedback is given as soon as. Well, soon as possible. But then a PIP might have to happen.
So I would say don't shy away from the feedback. And then there is positive ways we can give feedback that actually encourages and makes people more likely to change. It's based on science. Talked about it a lot in past shows and then there's ones that it's belittling and it actually makes them do worse. So if we can give feedback in such a way, hey, these are the things you are doing well. These are where we see you, we see your potential, we're for you. And that's why we're having this conversation. That's going to look a lot different than just coming out with, hey, this, this, and this is not good. You're going on a pip. That's a lot different conversation and making sure they know we're doing this because we believe in you, we want you to stay, we want it to work out. That's always the case.
So another question we get is many Leaders struggle with underperformers.
So how do we know when to coach or reassign, when to let go? There's options, right? When someone's a low performer.
So when say I'm sitting in a HR position with a company and a leader comes to me with the situation happened many times, still happens today and they have somebody that is actually maybe.
[00:40:23] Speaker B: A person that performed well in the past, but now the performance is not going well right away again. Okay, make sure they have the feedback, but check. Hey, are you okay? Is everything okay? When you see performance drop, I always make sure to check. Is this person doing okay? Is there something going on? Maybe they need a leave of absence. Maybe there's something we don't know about, another reason why the performance dipped. If not, then we will work with them to do get more training, more support. Maybe they're not liking the role. Maybe. So we reassign people to give them a new fresh start and try something different that might be a better fit to their their abilities and their skills.
And then unfortunately, sometimes if the performance, even if they have parts, they're doing well, but it's not hitting the expectations of the organization. We need to go the route of a performance improvement plan and hold them accountable with a lot of stuff, support with a lot of mentorship and guidance. But sometimes it just is not going to work out and be a fit. So those are some tools we have that we can leverage. Never have to do it alone. Always good to go with another leader for support or if you have an HR person to pull them in, pull in a consultant. And there's a lot of support out there that you don't have to do this alone. So those are just some topics in performance management to encourage you out there.
I hope it is not something you shy away from, but if it's an area you want to grow, ask for help. There's so much training out there you could get to grow in that area and you will find your team will grow with you. So keep scaling, keep growing, keep elevating your teams. This is Go Higher and I'm Erica Butler.
[00:42:02] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more stories, lessons and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
[00:42:24] Speaker B: Hi, welcome to Go Higher. My name is Erica Butler and I'm your host. Today we have a very Special topic and it's all about career development.
This is something near and dear to my heart as an HR professional the last 15 plus years.
From putting together career development committees where we have mentorships and cross training, to executive development programs, to leadership trainings for new leaders, all the way through advanced. We love this topic in our company and we do a lot of this. So this is a topic that I picked because we hear a lot from our clients and people working with us that they want to grow, but they don't always know the steps to take. Or owners of an organization want to have this as part of their culture, as a value, but they don't know where to start. So there's a lot of questions we get that I'm going to spend time answering today.
[00:43:20] Speaker B: So I want to discuss why it's so important to make sure career development is part of an organization.
So in the thousands, thousands of employee surveys I've seen, it comes up as a top four issue every single time. People want to grow, they want to have a path. Even if they're not looking for promotions, many people still like to learn, like to have the chance to try something new, like to see what's possible. And when we don't have this in an organization, A, likely we're losing top talent and having turnover, B, we're not attracting the best talent out there because we have no way for them to grow. And C, we have open roles that we're not filling with people that we could have been working on and have a path, a succession plan to fill. Most times I find organizations that don't have career development programs or paths, also don't have succession planning, don't have quarterly reviews of their talent, are not planful for a very important part of the business. The best companies I've been a part of in Fortune 100, they all do this well. They are talking about talent Monthly. And I can't stress enough how important it is if you're not doing this as a leader to have routines in place that elevate your team talent, give them path forward in career development. That's why this is such an important topic. It's better for the leaders, better for employees, it's better for everyone.
So a question I hear sometimes is once you've reached a senior or a high performing level, how do you continue to challenge yourself and avoid career stagnation?
So I don't think there's ever, ever a level you can reach where you need to be stagnant.
You can develop yourself inside a company. But also outside, the most important thing is letting your leaders know that you want to keep growing, you want to keep being challenged, you maybe want to have a new mentor. There's so many ways you can do that. So I think it's an interesting question because my answer is it never has to be the end, especially for many continuous learners out there that want to keep being challenged and grow. There's always more you could do to challenge yourself, you know, a project. I mean, there's so many ways. So that's what I want to share. Never give up on your own growth and development. I've also, I'm a big reader. I've read.
I just love to read. A lot of times I'm reading and in from a wealth perspective, a wealth development, finance perspective, the best thing you can do, one of the best things is invest in yourself.
If your company is not going to.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: Send money for a training or give you the opportunities, don't let that be the reason you're not getting developed. You can invest in yourself and you can get certified in something. You know, I went through a program years ago where I was decertified. It's helped me as a person, it's helped my business.
I'm willing to spend that because I see what it does for me in my career every day. But also ways I can earn more revenue for our company by doing that.
So I just can't. The best people I've worked with, the best companies, they really prioritize this and I can't say enough how important it is.
So next question is, what's the biggest shift high performers need to make when moving from being an expert individual contributor to becoming an effective leader?
We have a really big leadership training we've been doing for seven years now, and it has five parts. What I see as the biggest gap of new leaders, who they're great in it or they're great in finance, whatever it is.
So they get promoted to lead a team, but they never led a team. They don't know how to lead a team.
The biggest gap I see is, is the actually engagement part and also the flip side of that, which is connected performance management and accountability.
So in our trainings, we talk a lot. How do you get a team to get on the bus with you? How do you engage people, get them excited about where you're headed? And then how also do you do performance management? There's much more than that, but those are the two areas I see leaders, new leaders need training in. So let's break down both and Talk a little bit about them.
So from an engagement standpoint, it might sound simple. But if you are not spending time in your day week with your team, checking on them and asking, how are things going? How was Bobby's baseball game like? Really showing you truly care about them as a person, that is the first thing you need to do. Because if you don't have a real relationship with people on your team, they're not going to want to be on your bus even if they like your goals, they even if they just stay for leaders who care about them. So that's something I had to learn the hard way early on and it actually sticks and matters a lot. Another way for engagement is what we're talking about today, career development.
Are you pouring into your team? Are you training them? Sharing new information with them? Are you sharing your network with them? That is a way to be a good new leader. Are you leading with humility? Are you being vulnerable and authentic? All those things matter. And if you're not doing them, it's a very easy way to lead, lose people. So those are some things I could go on and on, but those are some basic, basic, basic things as a new leader to be aware of. And also if you're not getting new leader training, get a mentor in or out of the organization to guide you and support you. Because it is actually not that easy always being a new leader. There's just things you never walk through before. And having a support system matters. Call your HR person, get a support around you. Now the other flip side is performance management.
I have in many performance management trainings with new leaders. I've noticed and I've heard comments from them. They say, I don't want to be the bad girl or guy, bad woman, bad guy. I want to, you know, I want my team to like me. They don't want to put someone on a first warning or have that tough conversation. They don't want to deal with the accountability, but their job is to do that. And everyone on the team is waiting for them to do that. If someone's coming in late every day and everyone else is on time, ready to work, ready to go, that hurts everybody on the team. So I think for new leaders, equipping yourself, okay, this is a problem. Always we want to lead with support and training first, always go that route. But if that's not working and honest coaching conversations are not working, you do have to get to the point of a first warning, whether it be attendance or failure to follow instruction. It's powerful. And that is a tool that gets people back on track. You don't do it as a, as a way to punish them. You do it as a way to, hey, this is serious. I want to see you successful here and I'm having this conversation with you and this is in the file now because I, I talk to you these times and it's not being done and I want to see you be successful. And many, many times it just takes that and people realize, oh wow, my job could be at jeopardy because of this. I better get on, on track or they might decide, hey, I can't be on time to work, it's not working for my life. And maybe they're not a fit and they decide to exit or they have to ex a termination. And the thing is, when you do that as a leader, the sooner you engage your team first and then deal with those pieces, your team is going to rise, it's going to get easier and you will be able to even elevate as a leader and do the most meaningful work that you can do. You can add more value to your boss, to your greater leadership team, to the organization, because you're building up such an effective, high performing team that you're going to be able to do that. Of course there's so many more pieces we can talk about, but if I had to pinpoint the couple things that are the biggest struggle for new leaders, that's what I see time and time again.
So let's talk about career crossroads. How can professionals recognize the right moment to pivot, whether to a new role industry or even into entrepreneurship without jeopardizing the success they've already built?
[00:50:58] Speaker B: What I have seen and what I encourage, if you have expressed to your leadership team that you feel stagnant, that you don't have opportunities to grow, and you know you're someone that wants to grow and you want to keep being challenged and being engaged in that way and you tried at your current company and it's not a fit anymore, it's just not working. They're not listening, then it is time to pivot. We have a saying in my family that at some point when you don't feel valued anymore and you can give it some time, like don't give up quickly, but if you know you have more in your heart, more in your, more to give, more that you want to do, more goals and you're being held back, then it's time to consider leaving.
So I would say that's like a gut check and asking yourself that question, is it matching? Is the organization's value of what I believe I can do matching. And that's after you've really taken feedback, you put work in, you took initiative to show up and you did a good job and you know that you're performing well, right? So I would say you're not jeopardizing your success if you leave and look for something that's a better fit. You're only giving yourself a new path, even if that is entrepreneurship like I did or many other things. So I do want to encourage people. Those are the questions to ask yourself. And I always like to make it work at a current company if it's going, if you like it and it's a values match. But I think you never know what's out there. It's a big world we're in and there's many great opportunities and great leaders that could end up being a better fit that will see the value you are bringing and give you opportunities to grow and make an impact.
[00:52:38] Speaker B: So let's transition to something else regarding this topic and it's personal branding. So we live in a very competitive landscape. Most people in professional world are on LinkedIn. So how important is personal branding for our high performing professionals, those wanting to grow and what steps can you take to strengthen it?
So I learned about this maybe 10 years ago actually from a marketing team in Fortune 100 about actually your personal brand matters a lot. And it's things like do I do what I'm going to say I'm going to do? Do I do it? Am I accountable?
Do I show up with a good attitude, ready to work?
What when there is a talent review? What is said about me? Am I a team player? Am I making an impact? Am I taking initiative? All those things matter and then how do we speak about ourselves? We talked about this on a recent episode.
Some people think it's being arrogant when they speak up saying hey, I did these things so I know I could do that next thing. But I think it's, it's not being arrogant, it's having confidence and showing you want to contribute at another level. So it's all going to depend about your personal brand. And on LinkedIn you can actually have an opportunity to share that for your internal company, but also externally and you can work with people say you're a communications professional, it opens doors for you to learn and show up and show your brand to others and build meaningful mentorships, relationships. But I do think personal brand is a big deal and it's really just is your name a good, are you representing Your name? Well, are you being a person of integrity? What do people think of when they think about you?
Are you someone? They're like, oh, we want this person on the project. Or they're like, oh, skip over that leader because he's going to not add value. He's difficult to work with. We all saw this, seen it many, many times where we're planning an initiative for a company and you kind of might skirt around an important function because they're difficult and they're not team players. We all have been there. So I think all this comes back to our personal brand. And the more we show up for the organization and our can do and help and our have positive attitudes, I think the better it goes for everybody. And for your personal brand, you'll have a strong one.
So these are some of the questions we get a lot and I just wanted to share with the audience because I know many out there would have similar questions. So we'll talk a little bit more about high performers. So burnout is a real thing. As all of us know what strategies can help sustain high achievement without sacrificing mental health or personal life.
[00:55:14] Speaker B: We should never sacrifice our mental health or personal life for high achievement. We just had a session that we talked about. There's a misconception that busyness actually equals success and running yourself ragged means we're accomplished and that's just not true. The best leaders I've seen are the ones that actually manage their life balance really well. They know when to ask for help, they might need a counselor sometimes and they go for it.
The people who can have that maturity and navigate that is doing that well. So I don't see it like that at all that, oh, you know, if you're high achieving all the time, you're going to burn out. I don't think that's the case. I think you can achieve and be a great leader and impact people with life balance and mental health. But it takes a leader being okay, being vulnerable and asking for help and going outside when they need, taking a break when they need it. And that helps the rest of the team because the rest of the team gets the message. Hey, it's, you know, I'm going to leave on time and be there for my kids soccer game, whatever it is, you name it.
So I hope those are some helpful tips for you as you think about your own career and you know, what matters most to you. And I just encourage you to, if you are someone who wants to keep growing and making impact, you know, know your why know your purpose. Many times those that are super, super successful making an impact in the world have wealth. They're driven not by money, they're actually driven by great purpose. They're willing to fail to put themselves out there. Their mission and their care for that is so much bigger than the hard stuff to get there. And they just keep getting back up. So I just encourage you, if fear is holding you back or money, you don't want to leave a job because of the money, rethink that. And we all have choices. We all live in a world where there's many, many options. So with that, we'll close the segment. Thank you for watching. I'm Erica Butler, and this is gonna.
