Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Leadership isn't about titles.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: It's about vision, resilience and growth.
[00:00:05] Speaker A: I'm Erica Butler and on the Go Hire show we talk about the tools and strategies that help you lead with impact, grow your business and build teams that thrive. From real estate to cultural agility, from managing diverse teams to creating work life harmony, Gohire helps you rise above challenges and step into your next level. Catch Go Higher every week on Now Media Television, we're streaming on Roku, Apple TV, SiriusXM, iHeartRadio and all other major platforms. Let's go higher together.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: Welcome to Go Higher. I'm your host, Erica Butler. On this show we explore the strategies, mindsets and leadership tools that help individuals and teams elevate the way they work, lead and communicate. Today's conversation couldn't be more important for leaders, especially in a fast paced world where tension builds quickly and emotions often go unspoken.
Joining us is someone who specializes in bringing clarity, connection and emotional intelligence into the spaces where they matter most. Rana Najem is the founder of yarnu, an organization dedicated to elevating social and intercultural intelligence. She is the author of when in the Arab World and a trusted advisor to leaders across global industries. She has a master's from the Fletcher School and is certified in Cultural scope, Intercultural Agility and disc.
Rana helps leaders make sense of human behavior and work through what's getting in the way of progress. So, Rana, welcome to Go Higher. We're so happy to have you today.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Thank you, Erica. I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: Well, let's dive in. So where I want to start with you is why do emotional conversations feel so challenging inside organizations?
[00:01:55] Speaker B: It's actually, I'm going to actually maybe challenge the question a little bit because in some cases with some particular leaders, it's not very challenging. Some leaders actually thrive on these difficult conversations. They thrive on sort of conflict because it helps them challenge others. It helps them to face the problems straight on and to get things happening, get things going. So it's not necessarily always a very difficult situation.
The challenge and the conflict and having those difficult conversations, it depends on the type of leader it is. It depends on their personality, their outlook on the world and how they see what's important to them that then they will create that kind of atmosphere in the, in the place that they work.
[00:02:53] Speaker C: Okay, well, yes, that makes a lot of sense.
Do you have any thoughts about those that do have a hard time with these type of conversations? Something we do see in the workplace? Any thoughts about why they Do?
[00:03:06] Speaker B: Well, why people, some leaders would shy away from it or avoid it. It's because if. Of what it might lead to, you know, opening up a difficult conversation or having conflict.
Some leaders might be worried about where is this going to lead to. If it's something that I'm not aware of, that it's, it's not out yet, losing control basically. If it's something that I'm not quite certain of, how it's going to work out, where it's going to lead, what's going to happen, how the reactions are going to be, then there's a lot of things that are unpredictable, out of control. And that is where leaders start to worry about it and start to avoid it. Because we want to keep things, you know, under control, able to see very clear. Nothing, no, no surprises to keep just the, you know, the, the waters calm and the boat just flowing, rowing as is.
[00:04:08] Speaker C: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I witnessed some of that too. Like yeah, I think it's even not wanting to hurt people's feelings, you know. But yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, moving on, how do you guide leaders to navigate emotion with courage and precision?
[00:04:25] Speaker B: It always starts with your own self. It starts with self awareness to really first of all, I mean you cannot lead others if you don't lead yourself. You have to start by first leading yourself. And to lead yourself you need to have self awareness to understand what's going on in here, what's going on in here.
How am I interpreting the situation that is in front of me that's making me feel that certain way and those emotions that are then making me choose certain behaviors and actions and reactions. So it has to always start from understanding myself first to really understand and question what is the thought that I'm thinking? What's the meaning I'm giving the situation that's causing me to feel that way, that is then leading me to act or react in that way if I want to change that or change the situation, knowing very well that I cannot control how other people think, feel or what they do. The only thing that I can control is my own thoughts and, and therefore my own emotions and therefore my own actions and behavior.
So it always starts with self awareness to understand what's going on here.
Only then would I be able to really interpret what's going on with more clarity and influence others by understanding where they are coming from. So leadership is really all about influence and to influence others I need to first start to understand myself what's going on inside here so that then I'm able to understand what's going on with the other person in front of me. And once I have that connection, that empathy, that's the key word, the empathy that will allow me to influence others.
[00:06:27] Speaker C: I love that word and I completely agree with you.
So I love, we'd love to hear stories and examples of this in practice. So can you share a story when emotional intelligence actually, actually completely changed a room?
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Oh, there are quite a few of them. But I can tell you one of the clients that I'm working with, the CEO of that company is quite using disc language. He's a deep personality so it's very dominant, very straightforward.
It's all about action and results and very fast paced and he doesn't mince his words. He was very straightforward with if he's upset about something he would make it very clear without mincing his words. And that was quite direct for a lot of the other people that were working with him.
When we had the opportunity, I had the opportunity to work with him one on one and did some emotional intelligence coaching. He was then able to understand what makes him act and react in that manner and that there is a way for him to control his reactions. So he cannot change his personality, he cannot change his style, but he can kind of tone it down, refine it with a lot more self awareness and knowing that what's going on inside of his head and his emotions and then how his reactions impact everything around him and other people around him.
Because I mean most people don't go out to work with the intention of hurting others.
We go there to get a job done. We want to make an impact, we want to do well, get our rewards and go home to the rest of our lives. So it's. A lot of the mistakes happen because of a lack of self awareness and once people actually do realize that, a lot of people are more than eager to amend their behavior to be able to have a better influence, better impact on the people around them to at the end of the day it's to make themselves happier.
[00:08:54] Speaker C: Well, that must have been very rewarding as a coach to see the other side of that situation and see him thrive. And I'm sure his team was very grateful as well.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: So yeah, it's very funny actually. So we worked together for quite a bit and then he kind of took a little bit of a break for a couple of months and then I got a call from some of his staff saying I think he's, he needs to see you again. He's been. He's been on leave for a long time.
It's just a refresher. A refresher, exactly. Because it's easy for us to go back to our default settings, you know, the.
What we're used to.
And it's just because we do it without really thinking, without the awareness. And once we switch the awareness on again, that light bulb, it guides us to stay on track. And how do we know we're off track? We know when there's pain again, when things are not going so smoothly, when things are not really going so smoothly with our team.
Nobody's listening to me or they're not performing the way that they're meant to.
As a leader, I need to go back to myself and ask what's going on here? What am I doing that's influencing the situation that I'm in and what are the things that I have control over that I can make, that I can change to make the situation better?
[00:10:22] Speaker C: I hear a lot of accountability in this self accountability. And starting with you before you can even help your team with get growing in this.
Well, we have time for just one more quick question. And do you have just one emotional awareness habit you recommend to leaders who are newer to this topic? Just one habit that they could try out that you think would work well for them?
[00:10:45] Speaker B: There are a lot of nice kind of tricks that we learned with emotional intelligence, and one of them is just to do something that's physical that actually grounds you to bring you back to the here and now.
Because in most cases when we are angry, it's.
[00:11:06] Speaker C: We're.
[00:11:07] Speaker B: We're somewhere else. We're not here right now. We're in our head thinking about something that happened in the past or worrying about something that might happen in the future. And we're rarely actually present here. And so doing something like just taking a deep breath, stepping away, taking a deep breath and just maybe, I don't know, holding your hand or snapping a rubber band. That's. That's one of the things that I found it very helpful, very useful.
It just brings you back to the here and now, to the present moment. And so you're out of your head and not, you know, reliving something that happened in the past or worrying about something that might happen in the future, and it's only in your imagination.
So when you do that, just step away, you close your eyes, take a deep breath, do something physical that brings you back here.
It's very helpful to ground you back and to bring that light of awareness back on again.
[00:12:10] Speaker C: That's a great place to start. So we'll be right back. And up next, we're going to cover what leaders must do differently when facilitating across cultures and why a one size fits all approach never works globally. So we'll be back with Ranav just after commercials.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more stories, lessons and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
We'll be right back with more stories, lessons and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
[00:13:14] Speaker C: Welcome back to Go Higher. Want more of what you're watching? Stay connected to Go Higher and every NOW Media TV favorite live or on demand anytime you like. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock non stop bilingual programming in both English and Spanish. Are you on the move? You can also catch the podcast version right from our website at www.nowmedia tv. From business and news to lifestyle, culture and beyond, Now Media TV is streaming around the clock. Ready whenever you are.
Welcome back to Go Higher. I'm here with intercultural leadership expert, author and coach Rana Najem. In the first segment, we explored how emotionally intelligent conversations reshape teams. Now we're shifting into another complexity leader space. And this is all about facilitating conversations across cultures where expectations, values and communication styles vary dramatically.
So, Rana, you've been an incredibly valuable guest and I can't wait for the next segment. So let's dive in.
How does cultural intelligence change the way leaders facilitate group work? Let's start there.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Well, it has to. Unfortunately, in many cases it still doesn't because what usually happens is the leader thinks that this is the way it's done and there's no other way. And we're here and I'm the boss, so this is how I do it because I think that's the right way. I don't know any other way. And that's where the problems start.
Because we tend to see the world as we are, not really as it is. And we look through our own intercultural lens based on our own filters, our own life experiences, our own cultural experiences, all the stuff that we carry on the inside that it doesn't really show on the outside, but that is how it makes us act, react, decide what is right, what is wrong, how to do things, and what we think is even professional. I mean, all of that is determined by us and our own lens.
So what happens now is that most leaders just do it the way that they're used to do it, because they think that's right without really taking into account that they are dealing with different cultures, different worldviews, and a different way of interpreting everything and dealing with everything.
And what leaders really need to focus on and think about is, am I doing this in the culturally intelligent way, or am I just doing it my way and asking everyone else to just follow suit because I'm the boss and that's how it's done?
[00:16:13] Speaker C: Well, going off of that, it sounds like it'd be good for them to learn some cues. Signals, have some more curiosity. So what cultural signals do you find leaders often misread or miss during meetings? Is there a trend that you've noticed.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: When we talk about, for example, professional behavior or best practice that is such a single worldview way of looking at everything?
Because what is best practice and what is considered to be professional differs completely from one culture to the other?
There are a lot of different signs that during a meeting might be misread depending on the cultural worldview.
One example is silence, for example. So cultures in North America, for example, tend to be quite uncomfortable with silence. And when somebody just is quiet, you find that the other person feels a little bit tense and they kind of need to step in and fill in the silence. In other cultures, silence is used as a way to contemplate things, to think about things. And some other cultures are very comfortable with silence. In some cultures, silence is a sign of agreement and acceptance, while in other cultures, it's actually a sign of disagreement.
So there needs to be a lot more awareness, not to take things at face value, but to really dig a little bit deeper and to ask what is going on? What's going on underneath the surface? What is this really about?
How can I be more culturally aware that it's not just one lens, that there are many different right ways of doing this?
[00:18:05] Speaker C: Yeah. Awesome example. Thank you.
Like I was mentioning, we love hearing stories. Can you share a moment when adopting your facilitation Haitian approach created success for a certain cultural, mixed cultural group, or just in general even your approach?
[00:18:22] Speaker B: So, for example, I was giving a facilitation and delivering actually a workshop for a group that were some Mixed. Some were Arabs and from the Arab culture, different Arab countries. And some were mostly from the United States.
And when we were organizing the workshop, the timing of the workshop from Europe and the US in particular, it's a very time schedule oriented culture. So everything needs to be on time. Time is money. So coffee breaks, for example, how do you schedule a coffee break? A coffee break needs to be a minimum 10, 15 minutes. That's enough.
[00:19:07] Speaker C: Don't skip them. Do not skip them.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: I learned that the hard way, but not more. We don't need more than 15 minutes.
But in other cultures, like the Arab culture, the coffee break is not really about drinking the coffee and eating the snack. It's about connecting. It's about having those conversations. And the most important discussions happen during the coffee break. So having a 15 minute coffee break is actually counterproductive. And we need to have at least a 30 minute because that's where all of the connections and the, and the, the, the, the conversations happen.
And so trying to convince the, the different cultural views of the value of a short coffee break versus a long coffee break. So that was one of the, the stories that I found was helpful to be able to be aware of that.
[00:20:07] Speaker C: Knowing this information, it sounds like preparation is key. And it helps as a facilitator to really prepare. Know your group ahead of time so you can adjust these things and have a successful time together. So how can leaders prepare themselves for facilitation in unfamiliar situations cultures?
[00:20:26] Speaker B: So ask, ask questions as much as possible.
Ask where about the people that you're seeing. Ask about their culture, their traditions, learn as much as you can about it and don't make any assumptions because we tend to fall into the trap of the Brits do this, the Arabs do that, and it's very unhelpful. That's just more stereotypes that are incredibly unhelpful.
I would just encourage any facilitator to ask more questions, be more inquisitive, and approach it with a sense of curiosity rather than judgment.
Not, oh, that's strange. This is how we do it and this is how I'm used to doing it. But you're there to actually serve your audience. So serve them the way they want to be served, not the way that you think would serve them.
[00:21:26] Speaker C: Yes, that makes perfect sense. And I really wanted to hear more about your book as well and your organization. You found it. So you want to take a moment and share little more about, about both of them.
[00:21:38] Speaker B: Yeah. So when in the Arab World, An Insider's Guide to Living and Working With Arab culture. It's a very practical book that it's helpful for business people, students, anyone who works with the Arab culture. And I, I have to say, kind of a clarification here when I say Arab World.
The Arab world is of course, not one big lump. It's made up of 22 independent countries, each with its own traditions, with its own history, with its own way of doing things. But having said that, there is this, this string of commonalities, if you like, that binds us all together based in our main motivators of behavior. So it's about understanding what's happening underneath the surface. It's not a list of do's and don'ts because that's totally unhelpful because no two situations are exactly alike. So it's understanding what are the motivators of behavior, what's ticking underneath the surface.
It's rich. The book is very full of interviews with people from all over the world talking about their different experiences and how to maneuver the different aspects of the Arab culture.
So. And it is available in audible, on, in audio, on Kindle, and in, in hardcover as well.
However you like to use to. To read your book.
[00:23:16] Speaker C: Well, where's the best way people can learn more about Yarnu and find you Rana? Where, where can people find you and learn more about you and work with you?
[00:23:26] Speaker B: So there's. You can find me on my website. It's either danajam.com or yernu.com it gives you all of the information about the kind of programs that I do, the coaching, the work with the organizational culture, the leadership work, all of that.
There's also a YouTube channel which has quite a number of short videos about when in the Arab world how to maneuver different aspects of the Arab culture. So there's that YouTube channel as well. And you can also find me on Instagram. I'm not very active on Instagram, but you can find some things there and LinkedIn as well.
[00:24:13] Speaker C: Well, I should have read it before coming to Dubai.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: It's never too late. It's never too late. I've heard yes, some people have read it after they've been living in the Arab world and they still found it useful.
[00:24:27] Speaker C: So yes, wonderful. Well, thank you so much for joining today and sharing your wisdom with us. Your insights remind us that great leadership begins with understanding others deeply. Their emotions, their values and their cultural lens. For our viewers, remember, the higher you rise, the more your success depends on communication, connection and your curiosity. So take a moment this week to notice how you show up in conversations Especially the difficult ones. And how cultural awareness might change your impact.
I'm Erica Butler, and this is Go Higher. Until next time. Keep leading with courage, clarity, and humanity.
[00:25:08] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more we'll be right back with more stories, lessons, and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business, and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler, and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you bleed live and love with purpose.
[00:25:47] Speaker C: Welcome again to Go Higher, the show dedicated to helping leaders rise with clarity, purpose, and global impact. I'm your host, Erica Butler. Today, we're diving into one of the biggest challenges leaders face, guiding teams towards results that actually matter. Not just activity, diagnosis as progress, but our guest today, Ming Jingtong is the founder of Cultivate and a global facilitator who designs experiences that build intercultural agility and meaningful human connections. He speaks multiple languages, coaches across cultures, and brings a rare blend of insight, warmth, very true. And practical wisdom. He's also raising three kids with his wife Catherine in Minneapolis, continuing his mission to help every person around him flourish. Today we're exploring why teams stay busy but still fall short of the outcomes they truly want. And how leaders can shift their teams from doing more to actually achieving more. Ming Jin, welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you on the show.
[00:26:50] Speaker D: I'm so excited to be here. Great to see you. Thanks for having me.
[00:26:55] Speaker C: It's great to see you as well. I just really respect and admire and look up to the work you're doing, and it really matters. So I'm thrilled. So let's dive in.
Are you ready?
[00:27:05] Speaker D: Let's do it.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: Let's do it. First question is, what helps your team? Or, well, sorry, what helps teams shift from doing more to actually achieving more?
[00:27:16] Speaker D: Wow. I mean, that's a really great question.
The first thing that comes to my mind is this. What is it that the team has set out to do?
If the team is not clear and not driven, and if everyone doesn't understand what is my role in the big picture goal, then of course people are going to be doing a lot but not getting anything done. So it's really a question of where have we set the line and is everyone understanding of that?
[00:27:47] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you as the Founder of Cultivate. How do you help leaders assign multicultural teams around one shared goal?
[00:27:56] Speaker D: Around one.
[00:27:56] Speaker C: Excuse me, sorry. One shared goal.
Yes, yes. Like you were talking.
[00:28:03] Speaker D: Yeah. You know, it's really. It's really a matter of.
Well, first of all, the team leader, I think, plays a pivotal role.
And I think the best way for that team leader to kind of set that goal is really to begin with vision, but very quickly now pivot to building consensus.
So when the individual that is on the team understands, why am I even here to begin with? Why have I chosen to be a part of this team? Is the vision of the organization or of the particular quarter or whatever it is that's happening? Is the vision something that I can not only see for myself, but feel that is important, that is passionate to me, that I feel passionate for it? And when there is that kind of identity work that's first done in the individual, then it's much easier to rally people around.
What does this mean? Now we all have this vision that we love. We want to get there, and we also know that we want to work together as a team.
When a leader is able to help draw people out, first in identity and then in essentially knowing this is what we want to do together, that is how you can get people when they feel like they have the ability to not only understand the big goal, but to know their role in it.
I think that's when people are able to pull together in the same direction without feeling like they're being whipped on the back to do it.
[00:29:48] Speaker C: You shared some real golden nuggets there. I heard consensus and making sure everyone knows their role to play to get to the result.
So we love sharing stories on this show. So can you share more of an example that you've led through? So an example where clarifying results completely changed a team's focus?
[00:30:07] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm thinking back to, you know, a time in Minneapolis when there was a lot of civil unrest, and I had formed a organization really quickly, kind of impromptu, called Support the Cities.
And during that time, there were so many needs around us. There were literal riots, broken glass. There was a food shortage because so many grocery stores had been burned down.
There were people that were calling for help. There were people that were calling to help. There were people that wanted to give their time, give their money. What do we do about this? So because I had a particular focus knowing in my area on Lake street where all the riots occurred, I really wanted to begin to understand what does the community need. So beginning by understanding, not just the people that want to help, but those that actually need different things, they need food, they need their businesses restored as quickly as possible, those kinds of things.
So beginning by investigating what is the greatest need and secondly being able to gather those ideas and articulate them and essentially call and organize people together to meet those particular needs into groups.
Before we were able to do that, it really just felt like chaos.
There was so many. Both again, needs, demands and resource coming in. But until we were able to understand them all and to be able to help people find their place, essentially create spaces for people to be able to take action, that's what really kind of got support the cities going at that time.
[00:32:04] Speaker C: You blew my mind with that example.
That is a massive example. And I just kept thinking the whole time, chaos, chaos. And the fact that you could literally, you led that. Wow, that's amazing.
What a blessing to that city that they had your expertise to bring clarity and get people to the other side of that and get a plan in place.
Congratulations. Remember that on the news.
[00:32:27] Speaker D: I was just so amazed by the generosity, the magnanimity of the people that wanted to come out. They wanted to be a help and to work together to do it.
[00:32:40] Speaker C: I can't imagine all the relationships and impact formed out of that. You know, the momentum created by that. That was so good for Minneapolis.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:32:47] Speaker C: Thank you for sharing.
Well, moving on. What happens to performance?
You know, talking about work or in that case, even when trust and accountability are missing from the equation.
[00:32:58] Speaker D: Yeah. You know, when you don't have trust, you really don't have anything else. If you're trying to do work together and somehow trust is broken, trust becomes eroded and the ground starts to fall out.
The rebuilding of trust becomes not the most essential work. It is the only work that needs to be done now, because a team cannot function. I mean, they can be busy and they can get their work done.
But when there is no trust, when that begins to erode the most important work, really the only work, is to now begin to rebuild that trust. Because without that, nothing else is going to be accomplished.
[00:33:44] Speaker C: Absolutely, I agree.
So what's one weekly rhythm leaders can use to keep everyone focused on what matters most? Any practices you recommend to your clients?
[00:33:55] Speaker D: Yeah, well, you know, I'm a very people centric person, so the way I always want to answer what matters most always begins with the person, the individuals, how they're feeling, what they're experiencing, what level of resource they have in their own body to be able to endure the different challenges and rise to meet those challenges.
So What. What regular rhythms can leaders do? Know your people, make sure that you are staying connected to them.
Continually check in to understand who is on my team, what are they experiencing, how can I serve them? How can I help meet their needs this week and the week after and understand who they are?
So that regular rhythm of intentional pursuit of people, I think is the best way to build from the ground up continually.
[00:34:55] Speaker C: I can just imagine being on that team and feeling so cared for and so intentional as a leader, doing that every week. And I don't think people would want to leave a team like that. So that was a million.
[00:35:06] Speaker D: That's what I would want for myself.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Can you tell us a little more about cultivate and the impact you're making, the work you're doing, so our audience can hear more about your organization?
[00:35:16] Speaker D: Sure, yeah. Thanks for asking.
You know, my favorite thing is to help people talk about culture to begin with. Very basic questions like, what is culture? Where does it come from? Who gets to form it? And what happens if you ignore culture? It begins to atrophy. And what happens if we pay attention to culture? And how do we work together to create the culture that we want to have to create that third cultural space? So that's what I love to do, is go into organizations and help people have conversations. Not hear from me, but allow them to hear from one another.
The analogy I always start with is I bring a can opener and I bring a can. And my opening question is always the same. What is the value of a can opener? What's the value of a can? And what's the relationship? And the point is this.
It's foolish for me to think, oh, I'm going to go into your organization and give you something you don't have in four hours.
That's not going to work. But if I act like a can opener and I unleash the experience, the wisdom, the brilliance, the care of the people in the room, that has a lasting effect on positive culture creation.
[00:36:39] Speaker C: Sign me up.
I never heard it said like that, but yeah, that is the facilitator's role. And yeah, that's a really nice way you explained that. Well, we're at the end of this segment. Believe it or not, it flew. And we'll be right back. And coming up next, we're going to talk about leading teams who don't think, speak, or work the same way, and how intercultural intelligence can transform collaboration.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: We'll be right back with more stories, lessons, and practical tools to help you rise in leadership, business, and life. This is Go Higher on NOW Media Television.
And we're back. I'm Erica Butler, and you're watching Go Higher on NOW Media Television. Let's continue the conversation that helps you lead live and love with purpose.
[00:37:25] Speaker C: Welcome back to Go Higher. Want more of what you're watching? Stay connected to Go Higher and every NOW Media tv favorite live or on demand, anytime you like. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock nonstop bilingual programming in both English and Spanish on the move. Catch the podcast version right from our website at www.nowmedia.tv. from business and news to lifestyle, culture and beyond, Now Media TV is streaming around the clock. Ready whenever you are.
Welcome back again to Go Higher. We're here with Ming Jin Kong. And now we're shifting to a powerful topic for today's global world. Intercultural intelligence.
Many leaders are discovering that technical skills aren't enough. The real challenge is leading people who think, speak, and work differently. And when cultural misunderstandings show up, performance can suffer.
So we have a lot to talk about. Mingjing. So let's dive in. But thank you again for being on the show today.
[00:38:29] Speaker D: My pleasure.
[00:38:32] Speaker C: When did you first recognize that ici, as we call it, Intercultural intelligence, was a missing piece in how teams truly connect with one another?
[00:38:41] Speaker D: Wow. You know, it was all the way for me in 2010 when I first met Marco Blankenberg, the international director of knowledgeworks, when he began just to show the pieces especially, I remember the 12 dimensions of culture. Growing up, I was a bicultural person. I grew up. My first language was Mandarin Chinese. I didn't learn English until I was in grade school.
And when I heard Marco talking about this, I just thought, whoa, this is the inside of my mind. This is real life for me. And this is the first time at the time, I was, I think, boy, early 30s. It was the first time I had ever heard somebody put into such clear articulation what is happening in the bicultural world. And I knew from that moment, I have to be able to bring this to the world.
[00:39:36] Speaker C: And you have, and you are.
That's amazing.
So what are. What do you find are the biggest cultural blind spots that leaders often overlook?
[00:39:46] Speaker D: Boy, you know, it's yourself.
So here's my little analogy. People ask me all the time, I see you're wearing glasses, right? If you were to ask me, how often do you look at your glasses, I would say, not that often. Sometimes I take them off to make sure they're clean and such. But I don't know. Once a day? Once A week. But another way to answer the same question is I look at my glasses all the time. In fact, that's all I ever look at, is my glasses. I hardly ever see anything else. And we so often forget culture is exactly like that. We are always having our vision shift shaped by our culture, and we never remember it.
So to realize the way that we perceive the world, the way that we answer the question, how. How do you greet someone? How do you say goodbye? How do you do anything? Those questions are so deeply and unknowingly and always answered by your particular culture. That is our greatest blind spot.
[00:40:52] Speaker C: And many people who haven't been aware of this, that this even really exists, actually, it is like going from darkness to light. You know, I had a very similar.
I was like, wow, I didn't know all this. And I thought I knew, but I didn't. Your eyes open to so much and realize you don't know as much as you thought you did. You have a lot to learn and it's a beautiful place to be now. So that's where curiosity starts, right?
[00:41:15] Speaker D: Exactly.
Yeah.
[00:41:16] Speaker C: Amazing. Well, again, we love sharing stories and examples. So can you share a story where ICI helped a diverse team finally understand one another from your company or any example you want to share?
[00:41:28] Speaker D: Yeah.
So there's an organization here in Minneapolis and they especially after many, many rounds of spending time with them, the feedback that I've heard is, I had no idea that there were so many different perspectives around me. It's very tempting to think my experience is at the center of human experience, that I, in my experience, define normal, and everything else is a little different than normal or abnormal. But the reality is nobody's at the center of normal. There is no such thing as normal. There is a ring where everyone's experience lays and there's nothing in the middle.
[00:42:18] Speaker C: Well said. Well said. Oh, my goodness. Well, how can people go deeper in this? So leaders that want to know more and want to apply this, what do you recommend? Where should they start? Or even what tools or resources could you share with them?
[00:42:32] Speaker D: Sure. I would point you just to InterculturalAgility.com from that one website. There is a whole launching pad of articles, ways to be certified through knowledgeworks in Dubai, ways to find facilitators that are nearby.
But when you begin to consider culture not from the external point of view, the clothes people wear, the languages they speak, the countries they come from. But if you were to take that model and turn it completely upside down and ask the question, where did those foods come from? Where did those clothing come from? Where did those ideas that are in those cultures come from? You begin to understand culture has internal realities, like different worldviews, honor, shame, power, fear, innocence, guilt, as well as external realities. And when we break culture down into those internal and external, both invisible realities, we then begin to understand we can't possibly understand every culture of the world, but we can understand humanity. And when we begin to look very closely at how motivations are formed, how preferences are formed, we can really begin to understand we have our own motivations and our own preferences.
How do we recognize that in light of other people's and then ultimately work together?
[00:44:05] Speaker C: It's really a loving thing to do.
And your life will be so much enriched for it because you will build new relationships and go much deeper with people than you would have.
[00:44:14] Speaker D: Absolutely.
The love that we want to show other people, what if they're not able to understand it because we are not participating in their culture?
[00:44:24] Speaker C: Yes, exactly.
So you have a new movement you're working on, and it really goes hand in hand with this. Love every human, correct?
[00:44:34] Speaker D: Yeah, that's right. So I'm going to be building it. Check in on loveeveryhuman.org and hoping to launch essentially an ideological campaign that reminds all people love every human. No matter their words, no matter their actions, no matter how terrible you think a person is. We must remember every person has inherent dignity, value, and worth, and we want to therefore treat them with honor and respect.
[00:45:07] Speaker C: What are some of the outcomes you're hoping to see from this? Just from some of the division that we've experienced, you know, over the last few years? What are some of the outcomes you're hoping for and looking at, not hoping for, that you will make happen?
[00:45:21] Speaker D: Thank you. Thank you there. You know, it's at a very fundamental level I want to help people to remember that we mess up all the time. Should we therefore be treated horribly because of our own actions? We shouldn't. We need to have redemption in relationships. If there's brokenness, how do we find our way back into positive relationship with other people? So the outcome that we will make happen is reminding people that it is love that we need to give to our fellow humans, because it is love that we as humans need ourselves.
[00:46:04] Speaker C: That's beautiful. And I think many people are nodding their heads out there along with you. I think it's much needed and I'm so excited we have a leader like you who is putting this out into the world. I think it's beautiful.
[00:46:16] Speaker D: Thanks for your partnership.
[00:46:17] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. I Would love to hear now that you are been doing ICI work all this time, how have you grown and evolved? Like, how has it impacted your life? And you said you like to elevate everyone around you and, you know, flourish, help them flourish. Tell me, how is it going?
[00:46:34] Speaker D: Yeah, so probably for me, the clearest place where ICI understanding culture has helped me is in my marriage. I've been married now for 21 years and I'll tell you for probably about the last five years.
I could say with integrity that each year has been the best year of my 21 marriage. I would have said that in year 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21.
[00:47:03] Speaker C: Congratulations.
[00:47:04] Speaker D: Yeah, well, and that says a lot about my wife putting up with me for all these years.
But to be able to apply the principles of intercultural agility, really, to even understand, hey, the way that I view life is not the best way. It's just a way. And a different way is not worse. And many times, to be honest, it's better. My wife's perspectives help me, so it has shaped and given me curiosity, humility, and most importantly, the ability to bend and to be flexible.
And of course, in a relationship that.
[00:47:47] Speaker C: Really does wonders and you thrive in everything else you're doing when that primary person in your life and you are so solid, it's so powerful and it attacks everything else in your life. And your children, by the way, so beautiful.
[00:47:58] Speaker D: I can endure anything. If my relationships, the ones that are most important to me, like my wife and with my children and the neighbors that are near to me, I can endure anything. When I have those strong relationships, where.
[00:48:12] Speaker C: Can people find you? Where is the best way to look up, cultivate or just. Yeah, where's the best place? Mingjin.
[00:48:19] Speaker D: I'd love to hear from anyone you can go to meetcultivate.com and contact me there.
[00:48:26] Speaker C: Amazing. Amazing. And I really recommend our audience do that. You can work with Mingjing in so many ways. And fun fact, he also is on YouTube as a chef because he has so many amazing talents.
So where can they find you there? Because why not?
[00:48:43] Speaker D: Sure, if you go to YouTube and search up Hot Walk Wok, Hot Wok Academy, you can find my cooking videos there. You know, I just love to share recipes and techniques. I'm a real nerd in the kitchen, so I like to talk about temperatures and times and materials and ways of conveying heat to food.
[00:49:06] Speaker C: I have a feeling that really helps your marriage as well. That's so lovely to have a husband that's such a good cook.
[00:49:12] Speaker D: Actually, I think it's the dishwashing that's even the most powerful part.
[00:49:17] Speaker C: I can't believe that. Well, we have to wrap up, but this has been such a blast. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Mingjin. Today's conversation reminds us that leadership isn't just about strategy. It's about understanding people deeply, building trust across differences, and aligning teams around meaningful results.
So for our viewers, I really encourage you to reflect on one insight from today's episode and apply it this week.
Growth happens through action.
Thank you for joining us on Go Higher, where leaders rise together. Until next time. Keep growing, keep leading, and always go higher.
